12 year old's conviction moved me to tears

[eaglesprings]

I didn't know about the "See You At the Pole" event this morning, but on my way home from dropping the kids off at school, KSBJ told of a Houston 12 year old boy who went to his school's "See You At The Pole" event.

He was the only one. He stood there, hoping some other kids would join, but nobody did. So, he stood there, by himself, for the whole time.

Whatever you think of "See You At The Pole," that young man should be honored for his conviction! How many of us are so strong in our faith that we'd go it alone?

I thank God for "John" and the example he set. I pray he stays so strong in his faith. The only other thing I can say is, "WOW!"

12 years old!!!!

[Wilson]

This was going on at my kids' school this morning. Sure didn't look "student-initiated and student-led" to me.

[eaglesprings]

I would assume at an elementary school there would be some chaperones. I'd hope so, anyway. But, Jr. High or High School, the kids have a little more freedom and responsibility for themselves. That's also the age where "peer pressure" really kicks into high gear. I guess that is what I found so amazing about this 12 year old's stand. He evidently is going to march to the beat of his own drummer, and that is inspiring to me.

I've not kept up with "See You At The Pole" events, and honestly, I'm not going to take my elementary kids up there for such an event. They're too young to really appreciate it. When they are older and doing it of their own accord and will, it will be more meaningful to them. If they do it, that is.

I don't know if our school had anything today or not. I was so proud of my girls this morning, up, dressed, ready to go without the typical morning hassles! Then, I lost my car keys! I was still looking for my car keys at 8:05. Finally found them, and got the girls to school with tardies, and many apologies from Mom. Why did I have to lose my keys on a morning that they really had their act together?

[Wilson]

There were way more "chaperones" than students and the "chaperones" were the ones doing all the praying and telling them all what to do next.

I wonder if we'd be granted equal space and opportunity to erect a Maypole... or have a group meditation around the flagpole.

[eaglesprings]

There were way more "chaperones" than students and the "chaperones" were the ones doing all the praying and telling them all what to do next.

I wonder if we'd be granted equal space and opportunity to erect a Maypole... or have a group meditation around the flagpole.


I would hope so, Wiilson. All of our tax dollars pay for these schools. One "group" should not have advantages over another.

So, what exactly goes on at a "Meet You At The Pole?" I can still understand in an elementary school that you'd expect to see more adults than kids. Kids that age don't have the attention span for a prayer around a flag pole. I have a hard enough time getting them to be serious for night time prayers, but they raise quite a fuss if I "forget" about prayer time.

I'm certainly not against a group of kids getting around a flagpole to pray, but on the elementary level, what does go on? I've never witnessed it or been to such an event.

I'm still moved by "John's" story, though. I just admire the kid for taking a stand for his beliefs, even though he was the only one.

[msmichellemiller]

What's a Maypole?

[Wilson]

It's only been allowed because it's supposed to be *student-led and initiated*. Anything else and you have parents coming to the school to pray and that is crossing a serious line, imo. If these Elementary aged kids aren't old enough for the *student-led and initiated* part, then it should be left alone until they are old enough. I think it was inappropriate to have 30 or so parents at the campus this morning, in prayer, in front of the school. I think it leaves the principal, school district, teachers, and students in a very ugly position if someone should launch a formal complaint. But then they can just cry about being persecuted :rolleyes:.

Why does this have to be done at the school? Why can't they just pray in their own homes?

[Wilson]

It's just a celebration that sometimes freaks some people out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maypole

[eaglesprings]

It's only been allowed because it's supposed to be *student-led and initiated*. Anything else and you have parents coming to the school to pray and that is crossing a serious line, imo. If these Elementary aged kids aren't old enough for the *student-led and initiated* part, then it should be left alone until they are old enough. I think it was inappropriate to have 30 or so parents at the campus this morning, in prayer, in front of the school. I think it leaves the principal, school district, teachers, and students in a very ugly position if someone should launch a formal complaint. But then they can just cry about being persecuted :rolleyes:.

Why does this have to be done at the school? Why can't they just pray in their own homes?


But, what I'm trying to learn, is what actually goes on at a "Meet You at the Pole?" You said the parents were "telling people what to do next." Do they just gather around the pole and pray? Or, do they sing, too? Is there a "leader" that prays out loud? Were kids actually there, or was it just parents? (My kids would have been running off, I'm sure).

I tend to agree: Elementary age is too young. If a group of Jr. High and High School kids want to gather around a flagpole and pray, of their own accord, or if ONE student wants to go out there and pray, that's fine. They should be allowed to do that. But, at the elementary age, parents who pray for their kids can do that anywhere. (I know my prayer life improved after I had kids! LOL!)

I don't agree that schools should "ban" voluntary prayer. Or, even a Maypole. We pay taxes. We pay for those schools. That is "our" property!

[rusti]

Wilson - how did people know about this event? I wasn't aware of it until it was brought up here. Was it announced? How did you find out?

This should not be happening on school grounds. They ban other activities from the schools, this should not be allowed.

[Candleman]

I think it was inappropriate to have 30 or so parents at the campus this morning, in prayer, in front of the school.
HUH? Why are folks afraid of those that pray? I guess Christian bashing is the "In" thing these days. You can't bash whites, blacks, mexicans, fat people, poor people, but bash away at the Christians and everything is A-OK:mad:

[eaglesprings]

Rusti, I don't want to answer for Wilson, but this is evidently an event that happens every year, I'm guessing on a pre-determined date. I did not know about it, either, until today when I heard the story of "12 year old John."

I don't know if I agree with "Meet You at the Pole" or not. It's not something I've kept up with, but 12 year old John was inspiring to me. I think it is so cool that a 12 year old kid, in the midst of the "peer pressure" age, stuck by his convictions.

But, our tax dollars do pay for those schools. The kids should pray if they want to, and if Wilson wants to have a May Day celebration, go for it!

[Candleman]

Wilson - how did people know about this event? I wasn't aware of it until it was brought up here. Was it announced? How did you find out?

This should not be happening on school grounds. They ban other activities from the schools, this should not be allowed.


It has been going on for many years, Why should it not be allowed? Good Grief!!!!!!!!!:confused:

[eaglesprings]

Come to think of it, I learned of the Maypole in elementary school. I haven't thought of it in years, but that was not an uncommon lesson in school when I was growing up. It's a tradition, and has some history.

Now, I grew up in the "heart" of the Bible Belt. I still learned about the Maypole, though, and it wasn't negative. Why are people "freaked" about a Maypole?

[rusti]

ES - I agree with the story of "John", but he is old enough to make that decision. Someone in Kindergarten is not, nor is 1st grade. Also, if you want to pray, why does it have to be on school grounds? Meet across the street, go to your church earlier that morning. If I want to hold a meeting I can't do it on school grounds in CISD. I was told recently that Cub Scouts can't even wear their uniforms to school in Conroe (FG and Wilson - still trying to find out if that is true or not)! But my ds or dd can wear a t-shirt with skulls and bones and not get in trouble.

C-man - because not everyone prays to the same God and Religon should be a personal thing not a School event. I could care less if it has been going on for years - CISD has a policy not to let ANY group in the schools, why should they let this happen?

[Wilson]

Would you feel the same way if they were Muslims? I didn't ask who they were praying to... you're assuming!

[Candleman]

ES - I agree with the story of "John", but he is old enough to make that decision. Someone in Kindergarten is not, nor is 1st grade. Also, if you want to pray, why does it have to be on school grounds? Meet across the street, go to your church earlier that morning. If I want to hold a meeting I can't do it on school grounds in CISD. I was told recently that Cub Scouts can't even wear their uniforms to school in Conroe (FG and Wilson - still trying to find out if that is true or not)! But my ds or dd can wear a t-shirt with skulls and bones and not get in trouble.

C-man - because not everyone prays to the same God and Religon should be a personal thing not a School event. I could care less if it has been going on for years - CISD has a policy not to let ANY group in the schools, why should they let this happen?
How do you know what God a kid is praying to? You are wrong on the policy. CHURCHES hold Sunday Services in CISD schools. To answer you question why should they let this happen? It's a thing called freedom of religion we have in this country. It's not school sponsored so it does not fit the guidlines of seperation. Are you saying a 6 or 7 year old is not old enough to know how to pray or if they want to ? I see 6 and 7 year olds in Church praying all the time.

[Wilson]

It's a Pagan thing, mostly now. It's evolved and means different things to different people. People sometimes tend to be freaked out at things they don't understand.

[Wilson]

I only realized what was going on this morning when I dropped the kids off. I was trying to not stare and didn't even recognize any of the people at first glance. My first thought was it was Cub Scouts doing their flag ceremony :p. But then you could hear the adults praying and knew that wouldn't fly, so then I knew it was a religious group.

In short, what I saw today was parents instructing their children how to hold a religious demonstration on school grounds.

[Candleman]

http://www.syatp.com/

http://christianteens.about.com/od/activities/a/SeeYouAtThePole.htm

[eaglesprings]

Now, I'm going to start having trouble keeping up with this thread, because it has become multi-faceted.

First of all, yes, churches meet in schools. But, they pay rent! CISD is drawing in some bucks from the churches that meet in schools.


Yes, I would actually feel the same way if they were Muslims. I have as much respect for Muslims as I do Jews. Check out the Chronicle religion blogs sometimes. These are good, devout people -- faiths different from my own, and I'm constantly amazed at what we have in common. The Muslims seem to be the "enemy of the day" due to terrorist activity, but those are the radicals doing that, not the true believers in the Muslim faith. Us Christians have "them," too. If everyone was to judge Christianity based on Westboro Baptist Church, for example, then that would be somewhat like judging all Muslims based on Bin Laden. Unfortunately, those people are the "news makers," but we shouldn't fall into a trap of putting all people in a religious group into that category. So, yep, if a group of Muslims want to go pray on the school grounds, they should be able to do so. (And, CISD will take the rent money if they want to hold services there!)

Rusti, yeah, "Meet You at the Pole" evidently is kind of silly for elementary age kids. They just want to play, and the parents can pray anywhere. I don't really understand the signficance in meeting at the flag pole at school to do so. I think we have the right to do so, but why? On the other hand, if older students want to meet at the flag pole and pray, or anywhere else, that should be their right. That right should not be denied. We pay for those schools!

[rusti]

Yes Churches do hold meetings at schools and pay rent to CISD to do this
($50 per room/per hour). I was meaning they don't allow groups in the schools during the school days. I should have clarified that and sorry I was vague.

And yes, 6 & 7 y/o do know how to pray, but probably could not lead a meeting on their own - for this to be a student run activity. I am not sure of too many 9 y/o that could do (but some may). If my son wanted to run a cub scout meeting before school, he would be told he couldn't do on school grounds. And yes, I believe my son could run a cub scout meeting - you should come to one of my den meetings - LOL!

I am not bashing Religion of any kind. Lots of people and faiths get many different feelings and comforts from it and I am not going to try and persuade anyone differenly. I just don't believe it should be at State Public Schools. And lets not forget the "thing" called Separation of Church and State. Public schools are part of the State. If my kids feel a need to pray outside of church or home, I personally don't think it should be at a flagpole in front of the school.

There are Churches on almost every street corner in most cities across this nation, why couldn't this group just meet there before school if it is so important?

C-man - I respect your opinions and views, but some of us do think differently. I am not trying to bash you, just letting you see my view, just as I have enjoyed reading yours. There are many people that have different views - some you will agree with - others you won't - that is what makes boards so interesting!

[eaglesprings]

I don't understand why Scouts can't meet at school. That's just silly. These are "our" buildings! We pay for them with "our" taxes! I can understand not during the school day -- that is common sense. But, before school, after school, when no school event is going on, why shouldn't Scouts be allowed to meet there?

I can even understand churches paying rent, in spite of the fact that the members of that church have paid taxes. But, the Scouts? They can't meet on the school grounds, or even in the gym after school hours? That just makes no sense to me, whatsoever. These are students of the school, for Pete's Sake! Or, at least could be students, depending on where they're zoned. That makes no sense, whatsoever!

[rusti]

ES - don't get FG, Wilson or me started on that one, that is a whole other topic in of itself - LOL!

We can't even put flyers in the Tuesday folders. But then again, neither can any other group. CISD is the only school district in the State of Texas that has this ban.

CISD has a policy that they cannot let any group into the schools for any kind of recruiting, etc.

Now to retract an error on my part, yes, Scouts can meet at the schools, after hours, if they are willing to pay the $50 per room/per hour fee, 3 hour minimum. Most packs/troops, etc. just do not have that kind of money. And they can't meet until after 6:30 at night and no a/c.

[eaglesprings]

Oh, gee, I get so much crap in those Tuesday folders, I can't keep up with it! And, the Scouts can't put stuff in there? That is stupid! Go ahead and get riled up, girl!

[Candleman]

And lets not forget the "thing" called Separation of Church and State. Public schools are part of the State. This doesn't apply because it is a student sponsored event, not a school sponsored event.
If my kids feel a need to pray outside of church or home, I personally don't think it should be at a flagpole in front of the school. Is it the location some have a problem with or the fact that kids pray? Like the bumper sticker states so well. As long as they have tests in school they will always have prayer in school. There are Churches on almost every street corner in most cities across this nation, why couldn't this group just meet there before school if it is so important? Because it is a non denominational event where every religion feels comfortable. I was meaning they don't allow groups in the schools during the school days. That's understandable.

[eaglesprings]

Well, let's not forget the 12 year old who stood alone. It is just stupid that the Scouts can't meet at the schools without being charged mega-bucks to do so, but people can pray wherever they wish. As an adult, I don't need to go to the school flagpole to do it, but if a 12 year old boy wants to pray for his school, in front of the flagpole, why should he be denied?

Our conversation here has become multi-faceted, but "Meet at the Pole" is not a bad thing. And, this 12 year old kid did it! Alone. He stuck by his convictions, and will probably get ribbed the rest of the day for doing so (and, I'd venture to guess, he knew that at the time he stood by the flagpole, alone).

[Candleman]

but "Meet at the Pole" is not a bad thing. I agree 100%. It was the only day my daughter made it to school on time her Junior and Senior year. Too bad they didn't have it everyday, she may have received. credit for her first period class lol. She had an "A" but too many days of sleeping in = NO CREDIT. Oh well I'm just glad the school days are OVER.

[rusti]

I have no problem with people praying at school. I admire "John" for his beliefs and I bet a few of his friends might have been there is they knew about it.

What I have a problem with is if you let one group do it, then you should let others. October 11th is National Coming Out Day (started in 1988). Do you think parents would understand if 6 y/o Betty and 10 y/o Timmy attended this with other friends and adults (who may or not be gay) and they were told the kids would lead this group? No they would insist that it was going to be led by adults so they would try and ban it. That is my beef, with the elementary schools it was probably mostly run by adults with kids chiming in what they had memorized the night before.

Now, take 12 y/o Missy and 16 y/o Steve and have them meet at the flagpole for this event, no adults present. Should this be allowed? Why or why not?

The reason I picked this particular group was because I think it will stir up more controversary, but if you allow one group, you need to allow all. If kids want to meet before school for any kind of group then let them, but let every group have a day.

FWIW - I probably wouldn't allow my 9 y/o to attend but I would my teenaged daughter. I don't think my 9 y/o would understand what is going on and probably just want to play.

[Wilson]

Totally, totally, agree, Rusti! Had lunch plans and needed to take off lol.

[Candleman]

many schools have Gay clubs as well as Black, Latino, Asian, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, etc. I bet you wont find a White student club though.:)

[Sonchyenne]

These kinds of extracurricular groups will often exist to give students a sense of belonging that may not come easily. Having trouble meeting friends of a similar belief or faith in school? Start up a club and see who comes. Kids aren't going to go running around with a big "I'M GAY" t-shirt on and hope not to get clobbered by the masses. Starting a club will show a student that he or she is not as alone as they may have thought - and there's strength, confidence and support in numbers that is needed when you might feel like one of the "outsiders". Why don't we have a Whites Group at our local schools? Well probably because the students here don't need that kind of thing. Think a predominantly black school is going to form a Black Student Caucas? No. It's silly if you ARE the majority. To bring it down to an easy level...DUH!

[Wilson]

That's what I was thinking - easy to say those things (that Candleman is saying) when you're the Majority.

[TXrose]

Meet you at the Pole is a BEFORE school event. It is announced at our school, but we have a Christian club, the club has to have adult sponsors. They announced it but it is an optional thing, if you don't want to go don't.

Every club no matter what kind it is needs a sponsor. So if a student wanted to start a club that is open to everyone in the school, they have to have a teacher sponsor and principal approval.

I don't see anything wrong with Meet you at the Pole, a moment of silence etc. It's when people feel threatend that they have a problem with things like this.

[Candleman]

. Think a predominantly black school is going to form a Black Student Caucas? No. It's silly if you ARE the majority. To bring it down to an easy level...DUH!
DUH? Check TSU, Prairie View, Grambling, check the schools in the wards in Houston. Then come back and tell me what you find, but bring it down to an easy level.That's what I was thinking - easy to say those things (that Candleman is saying) when you're the Majority. Also check your facts on who is NOT the majority in Texas.

[Wilson]

Montgomery County, Texas, per 2005... 92.8% WHITE.
Texas, per 2005... 83.2% WHITE.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/48339.html

[msmichellemiller]

Wow. I guess that's why they say never discuss religion or politics! ;)

[FamilyGal]

That IS very cool. Whatever his beliefs are, to stand up for them is great!

[Candleman]

Since I said Texas and not Montgomery County....
Texas Becomes Nation’s Newest “Majority-Minority” State,
Census Bureau Announces
According to July 1, 2004, population estimates, Texas had a minority population of 11.3 million, comprising 50.2 percent of its total population of 22.5 million.
EMBARGOED UNTIL: 12:01 A.M., EDT,
AUGUST 11, 2005 (THURSDAY)

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/005514.html
http://click4spanish.com/newsdetail/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=6&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=1&cHash=263245dbb8
http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=23&topic=204

[FamilyGal]

Even though I am a Christian, I agree this activity shouldn't be allowed on campus if they are not going to allow other religion's practice an event on campus as well.

[Sonchyenne]

I don't have all night on the issue but figured your first jumping off point of TSU could stand a click or two. I checked. Not one group listed in the University's list of student organizations simply promoted African American solidarity or camraderie. Sure, there were some for Black Chemists or Black Accountants but we fall again into the realization that those types of professions are lacking in black participants. The people who formed these groups must have felt alienated enough to start something. They're not just throwing their color around to tick someone off. Believe me - I know professionals and they don't have that kind of time. What did you find?

One last thought on the issue...let's say there is some kind of Hispanic group that gets started in some area school with a school full of Hispanics. Doubtful that they show up just to say, "Oh thank god we're all HISPANIC!" and go home. Chances are the group is formed to stand up and be leaders of their community. Chances are they see some trouble brewing in the "like begats like" patterns and they don't like it. Not ALL Hispanics are going to rush to become members just to say they are. Maybe their members are attempting to set a higher standard for themselves and their culture. Just a possibility.

ps - Sorry, ES to hijack your thread with *The Race Issue*! :p

DUH? Check TSU, Prairie View, Grambling, check the schools in the wards in Houston. Then come back and tell me what you find, but bring it down to an easy level. Also check your facts on who is NOT the majority in Texas.

*edited for silly syntax mixup!

[FamilyGal]

As long as the other religious clubs are allowed to hold before or after functions on campus, then I think it is okay.

And yes, don't get me started on scouts. But, then again, if the schools let the scouts meet on campus, they would have to let everyone. For whatever reason, they don't want to do that.

[Wilson]

Even if we are to use your figure (which is odd since both our figures come from the Census Bureau?), WHITE is still the Majority. Hispanic is one of many ethnic makeups in one very large pool of ancestory.

[Candleman]

Even if we are to use your figure (which is odd since both our figures come from the Census Bureau?), WHITE is still the Majority. Hispanic is one of many ethnic makeups in one very large pool of ancestory.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165395,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8902484/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4795476
http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2004/06/29/News/White.People.To.Become.Minority-690168.shtml
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/010482.htmlHarris County, Texas, gained 121,400 minority residents between 2005 and 2006, which led the nation. Harris (Houston is its largest city) now has a minority population of 2.5 million, comprising 63 percent of its total. Its minority population ranks third nationally, not far behind second place Cook County, Ill. (Chicago).

Since The Woodlands borders Harris county these numbers are more accurate for the Woodlands versus Montgomery County.

I added links that should be fair to all.

[Candleman]

As long as the other religious clubs are allowed to hold before or after functions on campus, then I think it is okay.
Meet by the pole is non denominational. As far as I know and what I have seen and been told by students everyone is welcome.

[Wilson]

More accurate than the county it's actually located in? That's amusing. The fact is you will find more WHITES than any of the other races! Even your links are saying this?

[Candleman]

More accurate than the county it's actually located in? That's amusing. The fact is you will find more WHITES than any of the other races! Even your links are saying this? The Woodlands "area" is a very small part of Montgomery County. I know that is hard to fathom. You can spin the numbers any way you care to. The fact remains that Whites are now the new minority in Texas when compared to who once was the majority. But, you are free to interpet the numbers anyway you choose.

[Wilson]

It's not about interpretation! Your links are saying the same thing - WHITES still outnumber any one of the other races!

[Candleman]

It's not about interpretation! Your links are saying the same thing - WHITES still outnumber any one of the other races!
Ok we will go through these one by one without your spin.
Fox:
Texas has become the fourth state to have a non-white majority population, the U.S. Census Bureau (search) said Thursday, a trend driven by a surging number of Hispanics moving to the state.

MSNBC:
According to the population estimates based on the 2000 Census, about 50.2 percent of Texans are now minorities. In the 2000 Census, minorities made up about 47 percent of the population in the second-largest state.

NPR:· Texas becomes the fourth state in America with more blacks, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans than whites. Farai Chideya discusses the phenomenon with Texas state demographer Steve Murdock.

Texas Am:White people are likely to be the minority in Texas by spring 2005, according to a report on population trends released June 21 by Steve Murdock, Texas state demographer.

The white population is growing more slowly because the 1990s flood of newcomers to Texas has declined, while the Hispanic birth rate has kept a fast pace, Murdock said.

Census:Harris County, Texas, gained 121,400 minority residents between 2005 and 2006, which led the nation. Harris (Houston is its largest city) now has a minority population of 2.5 million, comprising 63 percent of its total. Its minority population ranks third nationally, not far behind second place Cook County, Ill. (Chicago).
Click for Spanish: (or press2) lol

Texas joins California, New Mexico and Hawaii as states with majority-minority populations — with Hispanics the largest group in every state but Hawaii, where it is Asian-Americans.


This is what I said:Also check your facts on who is NOT the majority in Texas.

[Wilson]

I'm getting frustrated -

There are MORE WHITES than any of the other races. You can group ALL the other races together (Native Americans, Hispanics, Latinos, and Blacks) and as a GROUP "they" outnumber WHITES. HISPANICS do NOT outnumber WHITES. Latinos do not outnumber whites. Native Americans do not outnumber whites. Blacks do not outnumber whites.

[eaglesprings]

LOL! One person realized the thread had been officially hijacked from the original purpose. That's okay by me, since I'm a known "hijacker" myself. :cool:

But, this one really morphed off topic!

Oh, well, I still applaud 12 year old John.

[Wilson]

I think 12 year old John is a fictional character created to promote Christianity on school campuses :p.

[Candleman]

I'm getting frustrated - Imagine that!:)

[eaglesprings]

Well, it's possible. I don't think so, though.

I chose to do my own thing once in high school by refusing to give answers to other students on a test. However, it wasn't for "admirable" reasons I did so. I got miffed at them. I realized they were buddying up to me right before test time, then after the test, I was ignored again, until close to the next test time! So, I can't "brag" about that, but they were quite shocked when I wouldn't give them answers, anymore.

Another kid could just as easily decide, "hey, I'm going to do what I think is right, regardless of what anyone else does," without such "payback" motivation. It's not out of the realm of possibility for a kid to say "just because."

[Wilson]

:p

[eaglesprings]

LOL! I knew you were being somewhat sarcastic. Hey, the possibility is "there," and I really just wanted to point out why I don't think that is necessarily the case.

But, I did get your joke.

[TXrose]

Even though I am a Christian, I agree this activity shouldn't be allowed on campus if they are not going to allow other religion's practice an event on campus as well.

What do you mean by other religions? Buddist, Muslim? etc. As I said in earlier posts they can, they have to have a sponsor and get approval from administration. It's not that difficult, but you have to have STUDENTS who want to pursue a club at school and teachers willing to sponsor a club.

[FamilyGal]

Then, I guess there just haven't been enough other students to start something because I haven't seen other religious clubs participate in something like that. Or it just isn't talked about.