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Wilson
09-27-2007, 07:40 PM
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1665119,00.html?cnn=yesShould Schools Fingerprint Your Kids?

By Steven Gray

The lunch lines weren't moving fast enough for Linda Stoll, head of food programs at the Boulder Valley, Colo., school district. Because of that, kids had barely enough time to sit and eat before the lunch period was over. So, last year, Stoll began looking for ways to speed up the queue. She discovered that many students, especially kindergarteners, can't remember their six-digit ID number, which they're required to type into keypads at the end of lunch lines. She then found out that there was technology that would allow a scanner to identify a kid qualified for lunch with the swipe of a finger, moving him or her quickly along. It would help kids who regularly forget their lunch money, and it would potentially remove some of the stigma faced by children who receive special tickets for free or reduced lunch. She proposed the idea, believing it would be the perfect solution.
It turned out to be the perfect storm. Dozens of parents raised concerns about privacy. Many mentioned identity theft. Others expressed fear that immigrant children might be unfairly tracked by government. Eventually, Stoll's plan was scrapped.
Elementary and high school students in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and West Virginia use finger scans to pay for lunch — and even to check into class. But in many other states, the parental outcry about privacy has stopped the technology in its tracks. Michigan and Iowa have passed laws essentially barring schools from taking electronic fingerprints of children. Last month, Illinois enacted a law requiring schools to get parental consent before capturing an image of a child's finger.
Generally, student information collected by schools is protected by the federal government's privacy laws. So schools can't simply give away information gleaned from a student's fingerprint. Still, many parents and privacy law experts remain anxious about records accessible to companies managing a school's computer system — and whether that information can moved if that company is ever sold.
Americans have historically resisted fingerprints of any kind, associating them with law enforcement. "But through the back door, schools are making decisions that fly in the face of deeply held commitments to privacy by throwing on these kids fingerprint programs," says Helen Nissenbaum, a New York University professor of culture and communication who studies the intersection of technology and ethics.
Finger scanning is a type of biometric, or a form of identification. So is a person's voice, even odor, sweat pores and lips. It's not known how many schools use finger scans and other biometrics. But observers of the $1 billion North American biometrics industry say schools represent a small but growing share of their market.
For an example of how the technology typically works, consider another Colorado school district: St. Vrain Valley. School administrators spend hours at the start of each school year scanning several points on the student's right index finger. "The information is saved within our system — it doesn't go anyplace else," says Shelly Allen, director of nutrition services for the 23,000-student district. When the student reaches the end of the line, she places an index finger on a pad about the size of a car's garage opener. Her name, and sometimes an image of her face, appears on a computer screen in front of the cashier. Kids with dirty or sweaty fingers are allowed to use their ID card, as are students who can't have an image taken of them because of religious or cultural issues. Allen says the system has helped add at least 10 minutes to lunch periods that in some schools last just 20 minutes. The technology hasn't necessarily saved money: the number of cafeteria employees has largely remained unchanged.
But there is nothing static about family reaction. Parents are often caught off-guard by the arrival of the new technology in their children's school. Last fall, Jim Karlsberger's eight-year-old son returned from school with a newsletter briefly reporting that lunchroom finger scanning was set to begin. "I thought it was Orwellian," says Karlsberger, a 43-year-old hotel manager in Williams, Ariz. "I find it hard to believe that someone, someday, won't find a way to compromise the information on my child's fingerprint." He rallied dozens of parents and the American Civil Liberties union to derail the school's plan. Now Tom McCraley, the 760-student school district's superintendent, says that before considering finger scanning, "I'd want to make sure parents had a full understanding about it."
In Boulder, Stoll still hopes to someday use fingerprint scanning in her schools. "I'm just disappointed our parents wouldn't let us be on the forefront of this technology," she says.

Wilson
09-27-2007, 07:46 PM
I wouldn't want my kids' fingerprints taken, either. But they have a good concern: speeding up the lunch line. What I'm wondering is how it was done when I was a kid? I remember going through the lunch line - and we might have taken longer because it was a true cafeteria - the lunch ladies would scoop the food out on the trays and then we had to pay for it at the end. Did we just have a lot more time for lunch back then? I can't imagine that it would have been too much extra time, but who knows? I do remember having some kind of punch card that kept track of how many lunches I had left.

My oldest bought his lunch a few times last year - as much as he *loves* this idea, I won't let him this year for 2 reasons - I've had lunch with the kids a lot and it always amazes me how long the lunch line is and that those kids that are unlucky enough to be at the end of the line only get 5-10 minutes to scarf down their food! Plus, the lunches can easily be $3 and if we let one buy lunch, we'll have to let both buy lunch and there's just not a money tree in the backyard. So they take their lunch and it works well for us now.

So what can they do to speed up the lunch line without creating privacy issues?

FamilyGal
09-27-2007, 09:57 PM
we'll have to let both buy lunch and there's just not a money tree in the backyard.

I was just griping yesterday morning that we have stuff at home for lunches and I wasn't going to pay $3 per day per kid to eat in the cafeteria. That's $9/day, $45/wk, $180/mo. for crappy food. The twins did tell me this year that the food isn't prepackaged like before. Last year you got a TV dinner looking meal that you pulled the plastic off of the top. My youngest does not like to buy his meal because of what you mentioned. He has to scarf down his food and sometimes won't have enough time to finish.

msmichellemiller
09-27-2007, 10:13 PM
When I was in school, the "cool" kids were the ones that got to bring the good stuff from home and it was the less fortunate ones that got stuck eating cafeteria food. Anyone remember those naaaaaasty school hamburgers? Bleh. Those do NOT taste like hamburgers! I was one of the less fortunate, btw. I always considered it a treat if I got to bring a home-packed lunch. Hello pudding cup, goodbye wilted orange wedge and soy pattie with tater-tots! Not to mention that cool lunch box featuring my favorite character I could bring it in! I would never pay $3 bucks for my kid to eat that food; you can easily pack them a tasty and decent meal for the same amount.

FamilyGal
09-27-2007, 10:49 PM
Actually, my kids are eating Chic-fil-a when I give them the $3 for lunch. I doubt they ever choose the standard meal. My younger son, on the other hand, likes the food they serve. He just doesn't like that he doesn't have enough time to eat it.

We used to have decent food in our cafeteria. I didn't mind eating it. But, I always liked hospital food too...lol

msmichellemiller
09-27-2007, 11:16 PM
Chic-fil-a !!!! Wow! I'd wanna go visit my kids at lunch everyday if I knew they had that to offer! I love Chic-fil-a!!!
And for only 3 bucks? Scratch what I said earlier about school food, that's good eatin'! ;)
Times have changed. Or maybe it's different 'cause I went to school in Oklahoma.
Okay, everyone get your jokes out now. (I already know how much Texans can rag on Okies)
But....I thought we were a country in a "fat-crisis"??? Isn't it bad to offer our kids fast food at school?
Not against it, personally, cause my family is blessed with a fast metabolism

but I'm just sayin'

How interesting. We're supposed to educate our kids on obesity, diabetes, heart disease. Yet a SCHOOL sells the very junk that can cause these issues? I'm confused.

cgwoolf
09-28-2007, 06:34 AM
Years and years ago - back in the very early 80's I was a substitute teacher in the Klein district. I was absolutely amazed on the days that I was sent to an elementary school at what little time the kids (and the teachers) had to eat. I believe the lunch period was about 35 minutes...but it took 30 to get thru the line. (And if you were a teacher on lunch duty - forget it, you just did not eat that day/week).

Wilson you asked why it is so different. Well when I was a kid - back before most of you were born, our lunch period was almost 1 hour, at least 45 minutes, giving us opportunity to sit and visit at the table. We went thru a long line (but not that long) and our food was placed on plates for us, which then went on our tray (like at Luby's) and we paid for our lunch at the end of the line. A plate lunch was $0.30 cents all during my elementary days for each and every kid. There were no discounts for the poor and no free lunches. Lunch time was a time you were permitted to eat, talk, relax, hang out.

Today it is run like a military facility. Little Robots go thru a humungous line, starving and waiting for their food. They are not allowed to speak. They have only a few minutes to eat. Not allowed to speak. Then line up like robots and head back to class...no talking please.

I always hated it that our schools thought they had to be so tough on the kids that during this little bit of time, they could not allow them the freedom to speak...much less hang out.

cgwoolf
09-28-2007, 06:35 AM
And I forgot to mention one little thing. Every kid was fingerprinted when he/she entered the first grade. There were no choices for parents. It is just what was done. And yes, I think it was a great idea.

rusti
09-28-2007, 06:54 AM
Everyone in my family brings their lunch to work everyday including my husband. We added it up and he would spend anywhere between $5 - $10 a day. That does add up fast. On Fridays, you can buy lunch or bring, but you have to make it yourself. Now my kids do make their own lunches everyday. I make my husband's lunch M-T. My dd has "C" lunch on Red Days at McCullough so she doesn't get to eat until 12:45 on those days. She says she packs 2 sandwiches because she is starved! On Green Days she eats at 11:45.

I do bring my lunch everyday since I ususally bail out of work early on Fridays:D.

TripleA
09-28-2007, 09:06 AM
I went to high school at Klein Oak and the cafeteria food wasn't that bad. We had a bakery with awesome pastries, cookies, kolaches, etc. Then there was the snack bar with nachos, hot dogs, cheese sticks, pizza, etc. Then there was the line where the menu changed every day - taco salad was one that I remember liking. Then there was the regular line where nothing changed - Chicken fried steak or chicken fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy or the veggie of the day and then a salad, a roll and milk. It was around $1.50 for that meal, but that was 15 years ago when I was a freshman. My mom gave us $80 a month for our lunches which was way more than enough, so any extra was for going out with friends or whatever. She packed our lunches from K-8 as we went to private school and so she deserved the break when we were in high school!

I can't believe the choices kids have today! I thought we had a ton of choices back then, but we never had Chick-Fil-A or anything like that!

Edited to add: I like hospital food too! My only experience it Memorial Hermann in TW, but I thought it was great when I had both kids!

Wilson
09-28-2007, 09:33 AM
Our school sells Chik-Fil-A as well... plus pizza and all sorts of other not-great food. I wish they had a salad bar. My kids would be all over that!

Yes, FG... same here - the $3 is for the "deluxe" lunch... I don't remember what the differences are, but I know my kid was spending near $4 each day for the lunch and a gatorade(!!!!). Um, no, this is not okay lol. Thankfully they are very happy with the lunches we're packing...

oh, but did I tell you guys this??? I asked 8yo what he wanted for lunch one day (my mistake!) and he requested LOBSTER. Yes he did!!!! OMG I about died.

Wilson
09-28-2007, 09:37 AM
At our school, they let the kids talk freely (but not get TOO rowdy) up until the last 10 minutes - then they ask that everyone is quiet and finishes their lunch. I just checked my son's schedule - they have exactly 30 minutes for lunch.

Wilson
09-28-2007, 09:38 AM
My dh went to High School at McCullough! LOL!

Everyone gets their lunch packed at home, except dh. He totally turns his nose up at the idea - I've asked him to at the very least keep a frozen lunch at work so that if he didn't *have* to go out with clients, he wouldn't *have* to spend $5-10 downstairs at the sandwich shop. I'm apparently asking too much :rolleyes:

schnauzermom
09-28-2007, 11:31 AM
My kids are 7th and 9th. I have packed their lunch EVERY day since they started school. They never eat at school because they hate the food that is served. My 9th has recently begun packing his own lunch, thank goodness! I went to school in CA and we had open campus at high school so we usually ate at Taco Bell or MC D's.

FamilyGal
09-28-2007, 11:38 AM
We had open campus as well. We either went home or went out to eat. I guess they can't do that anymore with the crowded schools. They would never get out of the parking lot in time to eat and get back!